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This has been a subject which has been an irritation for years. I know I just cannot be alone. Why is it that the guy has sex as if he is in the Daytona Five Hundred? I've asked several of the girls. I think it was the lovely Maggie Green (a fav of mine) who explained that this was called "rabbit fucking". The irrepressible Sara Jay was kind enough to reveal that this was for the benefit of the male performer in order to produce the "product". This was during chat so I did not have the opportunity to follow up. It seems, to me, to be a circuitous argument. If it is for the benefit of the male in order to produce the product, what if the product is not satisfactory to the viewer? Is this not counter intuitive? I enjoy the hard sex occasionally, but am constantly on the look out for "real" sex, i.e. ppl who really are enjoying themselves, not so much the male but most importantly the female. You just KNOW when a female is excited, SHE takes over and takes care of her own needs. Very erotic indeed. Possibly I am naive about the porn business but I do know what turns me on. I don't think I'm the exception either. Thoughts from the community?
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
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WalterB
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Porn movies aren't about the emotion or the romance or any of that. They're about showing sex in as many positions as possible before the guy pops his cork. And since the male has to stop every few minutes to change position, or listen to the director, or whatever, I'm guessing he has to hit it hot and heavy bangbangbang to get the ole lead back in the pencil, 
And as far as being "enjoyable to the viewer," remember, there are as many tastes as there are viewers. So I'm guessing that the directors (some, anyway,) do get input on what their audiences like, so hopefully they tailor their product to satisfy as many as they can (sales, lol.)
And as far as being "enjoyable to the viewer," remember, there are as many tastes as there are viewers. So I'm guessing that the directors (some, anyway,) do get input on what their audiences like, so hopefully they tailor their product to satisfy as many as they can (sales, lol.)
I can resist everything except temptation.
glad you've chose to respond, Walt. yes, you've hit on the major thesis of porn, money. I get it. my point is that this pursuit of the buck has diminished the industry and has led to all the approbation that it gets in the MSM. Let me splain: some of the girls, Carmen and Lauren, have been kind enough to allow us to see some of what occurs behind the scenes. while extremely stimulating( can you imagine Lauren and Carmen casually roaming around naked) one can also see the tedium involved in scene setup, associated staffing, ect., i.e. the business aspect of the production. I'm sure there is much more involved of which we or I am unaware. Getting to the point, it's almost an emotionless affair with more "acting" involved than emotion as you've mentioned. In my estimation this diminishes the end product. I think most of the population which enjoys porn will take what they can get and are not very discriminating. I am willing to wager that a well produced scene with two lovers will far outsell a mechanical scene produced by the so-called main stream porn companies. The use of condoms, which I agree are mandated, is just an additional turn off by the major studios. In contrast to what is produced in the states I give you the Russians. an excellent example of their work is "WowGirls" by Diesel. Stars such as Angelica and Gina Gerson produce films with high production value in which the girls actually seem to enjoy sex with their men without the use of condoms and with great sensuality. Why shouldn't the women enjoy the sex!? I mean where is the "feminist" movement in porn? Why do women have to be subjected to sex acts which I KNOW they cannot be enjoying. I mean really!! Who wants their vagina pounded mercilessly for an hour??? I think the women of porn and the consumers of porn should revolt against the misogynistic approach to their product. I'm only half joking. I truly believe that if a quality product is produced the so called stigma of porn will be somewhat reduced and the industry will be elevated. Ok, so the videos and movies may be shorter but the quality will be much higher. I will gladly pay the premium these movies would demand. Yes, I am probably naive about the porn "business" but I know what I like and I am sure I am not alone. Let's get back to porn that has sex and not mechanics. One last point, why do you think the VNA shows are so popular? The girls are actually enjoying performing and enjoying sex. Isn't that what it's really about?!, i.e. a celebration of the sex act!!!! (I sure wish some women would jump in to give us some perspective)
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
It's an interesting conversation Catalina, and no, you're not alone.
While it may not be as popular (with men) or have the pop and flash that big studios like Brazzers posses, the feminist movement in porn does exist, you just need to look for it. Julia Ann's new site site Women by Julia Ann is a perfect example of this. Feminist studios produce scenes depicting genuine pleasure, agency and desire for all performers, especially women, with the aim to expand the boundaries of sexual representation on film. This may include depicting a diversity of desires, types of people, bodies, and sexual practices. When seeking out scenes that challenge the mainstream, you are more likely to see active desire, consent, and real orgasms. And even in the spectrum of feminist porn, you see a broad range of content ranging from erotica to female driven hardcore & extreme BDSM.
While it may not be everyone's taste, I love the variety. Going back to January this year, I set out to find scenes with people that truly were invested in each other. Lelu Love and her husband were my initial contacts to the VNA and they were more than willing to shoot a custom scene that I wrote for them, demonstrating a loving couple utilizing a Sybian technique developed by the device's inventor. While most Sybian scenes are quick to ramp up the action, I chose involve her partner and to prolong the anticipation, to break from the norm and allow for a slow build which resulted in an intense and very real climax. If what you want to see doesn't exist, you can find ways to make it yourself.
To coin a phrase from queer-porn icon, Jiz Lee, “Be the porn you wish to see in the world.”
While it may not be as popular (with men) or have the pop and flash that big studios like Brazzers posses, the feminist movement in porn does exist, you just need to look for it. Julia Ann's new site site Women by Julia Ann is a perfect example of this. Feminist studios produce scenes depicting genuine pleasure, agency and desire for all performers, especially women, with the aim to expand the boundaries of sexual representation on film. This may include depicting a diversity of desires, types of people, bodies, and sexual practices. When seeking out scenes that challenge the mainstream, you are more likely to see active desire, consent, and real orgasms. And even in the spectrum of feminist porn, you see a broad range of content ranging from erotica to female driven hardcore & extreme BDSM.
While it may not be everyone's taste, I love the variety. Going back to January this year, I set out to find scenes with people that truly were invested in each other. Lelu Love and her husband were my initial contacts to the VNA and they were more than willing to shoot a custom scene that I wrote for them, demonstrating a loving couple utilizing a Sybian technique developed by the device's inventor. While most Sybian scenes are quick to ramp up the action, I chose involve her partner and to prolong the anticipation, to break from the norm and allow for a slow build which resulted in an intense and very real climax. If what you want to see doesn't exist, you can find ways to make it yourself.
To coin a phrase from queer-porn icon, Jiz Lee, “Be the porn you wish to see in the world.”
all good points. as far as "Jiz Lee" ( who the f*** is that?)is concerned that's exactly what I've done for years, i.e. filmed my own love sessions. my point remains, however, why should we have to search for the "good stuff"? I'm trying to get a consensus so that, possibly, the large studios will get a clue and begin producing films that arouse and not fascinate. I'm not interested in the endurance of the male, only in the satisfaction of the female. we know males can get satisfied in two minutes but seeing the female slowly become aroused and take the initiative as they experience that arousal cannot be surpassed as far as erotica (porn) is concerned. I am making the assumption that all males love the female form of course, and love the female orgasm. I can't think of one guy that can recall the face of the men he has seen in porno movies, can you??
As to variety, I am with you on that score as well. don't misunderstand, I am not condemning porn per se, only the mechanical creations that seem to be what we call "mainstream". why should you have to "write a scene" to experience what we all want to see? don't the porn producers see that the need for custom videos is because of their failure to produce a satisfactory product!? fyi check out WoWgirls on Rabbits Reviews or try a one day trial. you'll see what I'm getting at, George. why is it the Russians get it and our ppl don't??
As to variety, I am with you on that score as well. don't misunderstand, I am not condemning porn per se, only the mechanical creations that seem to be what we call "mainstream". why should you have to "write a scene" to experience what we all want to see? don't the porn producers see that the need for custom videos is because of their failure to produce a satisfactory product!? fyi check out WoWgirls on Rabbits Reviews or try a one day trial. you'll see what I'm getting at, George. why is it the Russians get it and our ppl don't??
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
Jiz's work is not mainstream, but well known in the feminist and queer porn community. Jiz is best known for their work with The Crashpad Series and Pink and White Productions in San Francisco, which has built a reputation as an ethical feminist porn company though its diversity of performers and scenes, and through its hiring practices and work environment. The content they produce is billed as "amazingly hot hardcore indie feminist dyke porn, sure to appeal to anyone who likes seeing gorgeous women do wonderfully nasty things to one another"catalina2 wrote:all good points. as far as "Jiz Lee" ( who the f*** is that?)
Truly a question for the ages, but again, I think that goes back to the money, and a lot of people seem to like the aggressive stuff and the big studios have that formula figured out. It is a financial risk for these studios to produce something their audiences might not respond positively to, especially when they're already experiencing success with something that has proven to be profitable.catalina2 wrote:My point remains, however, why should we have to search for the "good stuff"?
.catalina2 wrote:the female slowly become aroused and take the initiative as they experience that arousal cannot be surpassed as far as erotica (porn) is concerned
Agreed, check out Beautiful Agony. I like seeing everyone have a good time, guys and gals
. Performers that can create that chemistry always leave a lasting impression.I could pick out a lot of male talents in a lineup, there aren't that many (compared to the women). It can be helpful to know who they are if you want to avoid "rabbit fucking", but even then there are differences in performances based on whatever kind of scene is being shot, the other talent, the director and the studio. The same thing goes with the females for that matter. I remember seeing a scene with Mia Rose and Manuel Ferrara in one of his "Raw" titles where they stopped in the middle for a cigarette break and had a heart to heart conversation. Now if that was a different scenario being shot in a studio, with film crew, etc etc, that would never make it to film, but in this instance it served as a poignant reminder of their shared experiences and their relationship.catalina2 wrote:I can't think of one guy that can recall the face of the men he has seen in porno movies, can you??
Just saying that the potential is there. The custom videos are the real advantage I see going for smaller content producers. Avenues like Clips4sale or Pervout really offer an incredible variety of genres and content that large studios probably would not offer, unless they gear their content to more niche genres (kink.com I'm looking at you). Really there are all kinds, for all different tastes. Taking the time to survey the landscape, you can find what you're looking for.catalina2 wrote:why should you have to "write a scene" to experience what we all want to see? don't the porn producers see that the need for custom videos is because of their failure to produce a satisfactory product!?
Just taking a quick glance at some of the stills, it reminds me of X-Art, which I believe is American.catalina2 wrote: fyi check out WoWgirls on Rabbits Reviews or try a one day trial. you'll see what I'm getting at, George. why is it the Russians get it and our ppl don't??
Truly a question for the ages, but again, I think that goes back to the money, and a lot of people seem to like the aggressive stuff and the big studios have that formula figured out. It is a financial risk for these studios to produce something their audiences might not respond positively to, especially when they're already experiencing success with something that has proven to be profitable. well, sadly, this may be the distillation of the situation today in porn. there are apparently enough ppl out there to reinforce the studio's insistence on aggressive, "rabbit" porn. It pains me to see two ppl working so hard for a product that is marginally entertaining at best. I mean, these actors really work at it and that's exactly what is the most undesirable. I wouldn't mind if it were one or two studios but it seems all the major ones. I have yearly memberships to Brazzers,
Twistys, Erito, Pornpros, mofos, fake taxi, sexyhub, 21st Sextury, Anilos, Naughty America, Hustler, Babes, Bangbros, Cherry Spot, DDF, Stiffia, Spizoo, JavHd,Wicked, and on. All of them with the possible exception of Anilos, produce this type of fair. Maybe I've just grown tired of it but I don't think that's it. The girls are lovely and lovely to watch but the action is atrocious. I am not shilling for WoWPorn, 18onlygirls or WowFandom but these Russian sites are BETTER than MeTArt/XArt to which I have had subscriptions as well. These latter sites I enjoy the most along with a yearly subscription to Holly's site, monthly to Penny Pax and Lelu Love. So you are correct, one can find great sites if one looks for them but they are most certainly in the minority.
For some reason I refuse to accept the contention that the major studios put out this tripe because it's an easy sell. I would just love to poll members and get some input as to the veracity of this assessment of so-called main stream porn.
Twistys, Erito, Pornpros, mofos, fake taxi, sexyhub, 21st Sextury, Anilos, Naughty America, Hustler, Babes, Bangbros, Cherry Spot, DDF, Stiffia, Spizoo, JavHd,Wicked, and on. All of them with the possible exception of Anilos, produce this type of fair. Maybe I've just grown tired of it but I don't think that's it. The girls are lovely and lovely to watch but the action is atrocious. I am not shilling for WoWPorn, 18onlygirls or WowFandom but these Russian sites are BETTER than MeTArt/XArt to which I have had subscriptions as well. These latter sites I enjoy the most along with a yearly subscription to Holly's site, monthly to Penny Pax and Lelu Love. So you are correct, one can find great sites if one looks for them but they are most certainly in the minority.
For some reason I refuse to accept the contention that the major studios put out this tripe because it's an easy sell. I would just love to poll members and get some input as to the veracity of this assessment of so-called main stream porn.
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
one more point while I'm "pitching a bitch" at main stream porno is the so-called money shot. I don't get it. A guy makes love to a girl for almost an hour and he isn't able to cum at the end?! inevitably there is a cut and the guy ends up masturbating Himself to reach an orgasm. the fact that it ends up all over the girl's face, while distasteful and disrespectful to me, is desirable to some or even most. I don't get the eroticism of the face shot but at least it's more understandable than the guy taking care of himself when he has a striking woman in front of him who has been servicing him for the last half hour or so.
the mechanical scenes and the manufactured endings are the main aspects of mainstream porn which, in my estimation, diminish it's attraction and simultaneously provide ammunition to those who which to denigrate it, most especially the feminists. these types will paint ALL porn with the same brush which, ultimately, harms both those who enjoy porn and those girls trying to make a career of it. it would seem these aspects of porn are so easily correctable and yet...... Maybe I am just too ignorant of the business to understand fully the issues involved in producing a quality product. What I do know is I'd rather watch a grainy, low def video of two lovers that an HD of two "pros" beating themselves up!
the mechanical scenes and the manufactured endings are the main aspects of mainstream porn which, in my estimation, diminish it's attraction and simultaneously provide ammunition to those who which to denigrate it, most especially the feminists. these types will paint ALL porn with the same brush which, ultimately, harms both those who enjoy porn and those girls trying to make a career of it. it would seem these aspects of porn are so easily correctable and yet...... Maybe I am just too ignorant of the business to understand fully the issues involved in producing a quality product. What I do know is I'd rather watch a grainy, low def video of two lovers that an HD of two "pros" beating themselves up!
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
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stickyvicky
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But there is something for everyone Catalina that's why there are 100,000's of sites to choose from.
That being said, I remember when I was in LA shooting for the commercial studios. We would always be having sex in the most uncomfortable places possible because the director thought it looked good. One time it was 6 am on the edge of a cliff and I was supposed to do a DP and it was about 40 degrees outside. We were naked and freezing. We kept running back to this cabin to go inside to have some coffee and warm up... the guys were struggling to stay hard because it was just physically uncomfortable we were naked on top of sharp rocks and freezing.
Another time it was on the roof of a building in downtown LA and it was over 100 degrees in the sun with no shade. We were almost passing out. They had to keep pouring water on us and giving us water to drink to stay hydrated. Sometimes the guys have to shoot drugs directly into their penises to stay hard. Apparently it has a bit of a numbing effect so they don't realize how hard they are fucking and maybe hurting the girl a little bit. I remember being on set with guys who would walk around slamming their hard dick on furniture so they could feel it. I'm not joking...
I've had to have sex in freezing cold swimming pools, on the edge of a tub, on a motorcycle... yeah maybe it looks hot to the viewer but you are more worried about holding on and not falling off so you can't really enjoy it. It's even harder on the guy than the girl. I give them much love and kudos because they really work hard. You criticise them because they have to jerk off at the end but you have no idea how many times they have had to stop and start. Every director does it differently, but sometimes you have to stop for stills for each position. So that means stopping at least 4 or 5 times... sometimes they change their minds about things and you have to do it again... You only see the finished product, say a 20 minute video but maybe the performers have been fucking for 4 hours and are just plain exhausted. The penis has been up and down 20 times! Sometimes it's a young inexperienced girl who doesn't know the first thing and the guy has to physically keep moving her and putting her body into the right positions for the light and camera angles to look good. Maybe she has bad breath or her pussy smells and he still has to keep it up. Maybe they don't even really like each other. Maybe the second the camera is off, she pushes him away. Makes it harder to cum right? You really have no idea how it is being on a set in LA... lol...
That's why I'm soooo happy I'm on my own, doing whatever I want, when I want, how I want with who I want! So it's all real.
That being said, I remember when I was in LA shooting for the commercial studios. We would always be having sex in the most uncomfortable places possible because the director thought it looked good. One time it was 6 am on the edge of a cliff and I was supposed to do a DP and it was about 40 degrees outside. We were naked and freezing. We kept running back to this cabin to go inside to have some coffee and warm up... the guys were struggling to stay hard because it was just physically uncomfortable we were naked on top of sharp rocks and freezing.
Another time it was on the roof of a building in downtown LA and it was over 100 degrees in the sun with no shade. We were almost passing out. They had to keep pouring water on us and giving us water to drink to stay hydrated. Sometimes the guys have to shoot drugs directly into their penises to stay hard. Apparently it has a bit of a numbing effect so they don't realize how hard they are fucking and maybe hurting the girl a little bit. I remember being on set with guys who would walk around slamming their hard dick on furniture so they could feel it. I'm not joking...
I've had to have sex in freezing cold swimming pools, on the edge of a tub, on a motorcycle... yeah maybe it looks hot to the viewer but you are more worried about holding on and not falling off so you can't really enjoy it. It's even harder on the guy than the girl. I give them much love and kudos because they really work hard. You criticise them because they have to jerk off at the end but you have no idea how many times they have had to stop and start. Every director does it differently, but sometimes you have to stop for stills for each position. So that means stopping at least 4 or 5 times... sometimes they change their minds about things and you have to do it again... You only see the finished product, say a 20 minute video but maybe the performers have been fucking for 4 hours and are just plain exhausted. The penis has been up and down 20 times! Sometimes it's a young inexperienced girl who doesn't know the first thing and the guy has to physically keep moving her and putting her body into the right positions for the light and camera angles to look good. Maybe she has bad breath or her pussy smells and he still has to keep it up. Maybe they don't even really like each other. Maybe the second the camera is off, she pushes him away. Makes it harder to cum right? You really have no idea how it is being on a set in LA... lol...
That's why I'm soooo happy I'm on my own, doing whatever I want, when I want, how I want with who I want! So it's all real.
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That's why I'm soooo happy I'm on my own, doing whatever I want, when I want, how I want with who I want! So it's all real.
exactly, exactly, exactly You're making my point. I can see there are multiple views on the issue and the consensus is there is something for everyone. Thanks to all who contributed. I didn't mean in any way to insult the performers, only the porn studios, whom I feel, continue to take the easy way out. Maybe if I bug the studios enough and the popularity of , I guess you would call it soft porn, increases, the major American studios might get a clue. All the actresses should feel like you during a shoot , Vicky, now wouldn't that produce a great product!?
(thanks for the candid insights on "life on the set". I guess I just remember the vintage flicks before the slick sets, HD cams, associated crews, scripts and big bucks took over)
exactly, exactly, exactly You're making my point. I can see there are multiple views on the issue and the consensus is there is something for everyone. Thanks to all who contributed. I didn't mean in any way to insult the performers, only the porn studios, whom I feel, continue to take the easy way out. Maybe if I bug the studios enough and the popularity of , I guess you would call it soft porn, increases, the major American studios might get a clue. All the actresses should feel like you during a shoot , Vicky, now wouldn't that produce a great product!?
(thanks for the candid insights on "life on the set". I guess I just remember the vintage flicks before the slick sets, HD cams, associated crews, scripts and big bucks took over)
from Rod Serling's "Time Enough" my all time fav Serling Twilight Zone teleplay
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