Abortion

[catalina2]

sorry about the previous post. "the devil made me do it". it's Super Bowl time!!! GO PATS!!

[Anthony_JK]

don't you just love these declaratives: "period", "end of take"? sound familiar? sound like "the science is settled"? liberals have such a monopoly on truth. how would we survive without them?

1) I'm not a liberal; I'm way to the Left of them.

2) Expressing my own personal viewpoint on abortion is not quite the same as "the science is settled". A woman's right of choice is not subject to a poll or debate here.

Out of respect for Vicky, I'll stop there.

[Davest]

I saw an interesting piece about bodily autonomy the other day.

If a person is dying of kidney disease and I am the only known match, I am not forced to donate my kidney, even though the procedure is fairly easy and routine these days. Even if the other peson will die without my kidney, I still control how my body is used. This is bodily autonomy, the right to decide how your body is used. It extends even further. If a person is killed in an accident, medical personnel cannot harvest their organs unless they agreed to be a donor while alive. Even thoughy they are dead and have no further use for their organs, and despite the number of lives that could be saved or positively impacted, one's bodily autonomy extends beyond death. And yet, many people will try to tell women that if they have a living fetus inside of them, they MUST carry it. They are telling women that they have less bodily autonomy than a corpse. I cannot agree with this.

Of course we all hope these terrible decisions never need to be made. But if and when they do, I believe everyone should have bodily autonomy and should be able to decide for themselves.

[stickyvicky]

That really bothers me about organ donors. Everyone should be one. Do you think it's because the medics say "hey this one's almost dead, no use trying to save him, let's just use his organs"?

[catalina2]

how about""this one's almost "alive",let's just use it's organs""? Listen, I'm not anti-abortion, only anti-intolerant (btw I'm sure the forum welcomes communists as well anthony_k, you may respond to me in any way you wish, I doubt Vicky will mind. after all, she's been putting up with Me). Davest, et. al. why do you continually miss the point that there is a sound biological/genetic argument that the entity (to avoid emotionally charged appellations) is viable and NOT a "part" of the woman's body, but able to evolve, to become an embryo,a fetus, an infant, a child, a human being?

[mikesline]

I Think government should'nt decide,but when i hear abortion clics having a quota,something has got to change for a better sollution.

[catalina2]

you know, Vicky, I love to debate. I began this discussion because it's controversial. I love to debate controversy. Then I made a horrendous mistake. I began to reread some of the comments on this thread. I reread my own comments. I was on twitter this morning just after my last post. There was a book posted. I remembered the grisly case and it piqued my interest. After all it had occurred years ago. I downloaded it to my kindle. I just completed it. After the first paragraph I could not put it down but not for the reasons you may believe. I am in the medical profession. I've see some horrific injuries and witnessed a callous disregard for life that would chill your spine. Nothing prepared me for the horrors in the book. I'm not about to comment further. In fact, this is my final post on this issue. For those of you that care, here is the link.

[Maggie Green]

don't you just love these declaratives: "period", "end of take"? sound familiar? sound like "the science is settled"? liberals have such a monopoly on truth. how would we survive without them?

1) I'm not a liberal; I'm way to the Left of them.

2) Expressing my own personal viewpoint on abortion is not quite the same as "the science is settled". A woman's right of choice is not subject to a poll or debate here.

Out of respect for Vicky, I'll stop there.

I'm not even up for conversation on the issue. When I said my body, my choice..period. That's what I meant. Period. Anthony, you can't argue with batshitcrazy as I am sure you very well know : )

[Anthony_JK]

addendum: has the irony of vegans, who seem to constitute the most vocal of the pro-abortion crowd,i.e. those dressed as vaginas, are aghast at the prospect of eating an egg? If I am not mistaken, an egg is an embryo - a precursor to life. In the event the irony escapes you, they are essentially ok to save chickens but not humans. btw anthony_K, if you are able to tear yourself away from throwing Molotov cocktails in protest to the free speech of a homosexual, white, immigrant, republican who literally and figuratively loves blacks pls do not abstain from expressing your free speech here. I await with breath baited. (sorry Vick, the devil just will not leave my shoulder these days).

1) A human being is not an egg.

2) A woman is not a chicken.

3) I don't throw Molotov cocktails.

4) Milo is still a Nazi, regardless of whom he is fucking.

5) Someone who wants to remove the humanity of others who do no harm deserves free speech, but so do the people he wants to harm.

6) Wasn't this about abortion, not Milo, to begin with?


Again, please don't tempt me to go on. I try to keep my politics out of this forum, but if you force my hand, Cat, I can read you like a book. Second strike.

[jbadd007]

This is such a simple issue. It eludes me how come it has become so complicated. If your personal religious or moral beliefs say that abortion is wrong than that is how YOU should live your life. Raise your children that way if you choose. But to legislate that everyone has to have your belief system about when and how life begins is ridiculous. We DO NOT own anyone's body but our own. If that is the choice a woman decides to make its HER choice. If there is a higher being who will have a say in it then they will deal with him/her not US.

Do some people abuse the abortion option. Absolutely. But legislating morality is dangerous. What's next? Outlawing porn?! There are many who believe its morally depraved and an obscene affront to society. But do the men and women doing porn have the right to use their bodies how they see fit? Dangerous times these right now.

[Anthony_JK]

how about""this one's almost "alive",let's just use it's organs""? Listen, I'm not anti-abortion, only anti-intolerant (btw I'm sure the forum welcomes communists as well anthony_k, you may respond to me in any way you wish, I doubt Vicky will mind. after all, she's been putting up with Me). Davest, et. al. why do you continually miss the point that there is a sound biological/genetic argument that the entity (to avoid emotionally charged appellations) is viable and NOT a "part" of the woman's body, but able to evolve, to become an embryo,a fetus, an infant, a child, a human being?
(btw Vicky, I'm not "legal" yet, but will join Penny's site today. You definitely have some kind of "glitch" in the system, a "back door")

Except did I say I was a Communist? Nope....simply an Independent Lefty. Although, perfectly understandable that you are incapable of telling the difference.

A woman should not be forced into a pregnancy against her will, regardless of how a zygote is defined.

[Anthony_JK]

you know, Vicky, I love to debate. I began this discussion because it's controversial. I love to debate controversy. Then I made a horrendous mistake. I began to reread some of the comments on this thread. I reread my own comments. I was on twitter this morning just after my last post. There was a book posted. I remembered the grisly case and it piqued my interest. After all it had occurred years ago. I downloaded it to my kindle. I just completed it. After the first paragraph I could not put it down but not for the reasons you may believe. I am in the medical profession. I've see some horrific injuries and witnessed a callous disregard for life that would chill your spine. Nothing prepared me for the horrors in the book. I'm not about to comment further. In fact, this is my final post on this issue. For those of you that care, here is the link.

And for his/her next antiabortion agitprop, Catalina will link to a site with gruesome pics of "fetuses" being "aborted" to prove that victims of rape and incest should be forced to endure their pregnancies. Nice try. And actually, Vicky began the discussion, since she started the thread.


Oh, and Cat?? Check the date of membership on my profile: April 2005. That would be 12 years of membership in this forum and Vicky's site/network. Even before the VNA was even formed. My personal political views didn't attract me here; Vicky's boobs did. Her humanity has kept me here since.

[stickyvicky]

I think all of us agree on more points than we disagree on. Does sound like we all agree that the government should not be involved in these decisions? Sorry didn't mean to start a shit storm about it, but it is a current event in the news right now so everyone talking about it.

[PeterL22]

Yep we do Vicky. Stimulating a good discussion is never a bad thing. Its only by talking that we get to understand each other. The more we understand each other, the better we get on.
You go girl