FSC approves HIV positive performers to work?

[stickyvicky]

http://mikesouth.com/stds-in-porn/fsc-a ... ool-33169/
As I'm reading this, I'm thinking this is just another nail in the coffin of mainstream studio porn production in LA. It used to be that Porn Valley produced the bulk of porn that was consumed. I suck at stats and don't want to do the research right now, maybe someone could look it up... but when I started doing movies back in 2003, I think they released something like 1000 -1200 DVD's per month, between all the companies and now that number is maybe 200? Not many people buy DVD's anymore now anyway, everyone downloads or streams... It's not just that - the business has become so fragmented. The hub is not in LA anymore, it's in Budapest! Just ask Porno Dan. Now girls can do websites, camming.... clipstores, onlyfans, snapchat. Why would anyone travel to LA, spend a ton in expenses, to possibly get hurt on a set when you can make more money from the comfort of your own home? And now this? They just sealed the fate of porn in LA if you ask me?

[mrjosh85]

HIV treatment can suppress viral loads to very low levels making transmission very unlikely; however, that doesn’t mean they should be performing, particularly without a condom. HIV itself is difficult to transmit (per the CDC), but again, only a fool would take that to mean that they should expose themselves without protection, or at all.

I see that many girls live in Las Vegas and only commute to LA occasionally to shoot.
I remember when Jules Jordan used to crank films out all the time, but now he usually only has one trailer up at a time.
The trend is definitely towards Onlyfans and Private Snaps, but I wonder if they’re limiting their potential audience because of it? That is to say: how many guys are going to buy 5-6 subscriptions at a time? They’ll buy for their favorite girl, but they likely won’t pay for multiple subscriptions as that adds up quickly. Other girls they’d like to patronize might not get their business, and instead they’ll go back to tube sites to jerk off to the rest of the girls.
This is why the VNA is the best format: you get access to many different girls (not that I take advantage of that ) but still get the personal level and intimacy you desire with them.

P.S. I’ll look for those stats for you

[Andrew35]

on my old Twitter account the FSC Army had me blocked, not sure why though. I know in wrestling that you can't have anything that is contagious to wrestle (mind you the E is the place that is going to be more diligent on that as a indy promoter is not going to be able to pay for all the testing). Now when I wrestled and was going to blade/get color/bleed I always went and got tested.

Yeah this looks to be another nail in the LA porn scene

[Anthony_JK]

I'm calling Fake News on this one.

FSC via their Twitter timeline has responded with a swift denial and rejection of that post, saying that nothing in the PASS protocols has changed one bit. Any performer who tests HIV positive, whether they are taking PrEP treatments to reduce their viral load or not, is swiftly and permanently eliminated from the performer pool. It does not matter if they are taking PrEF or not.

Also, there was no "vote" per se on anything: FSC had a panel discussion at the AEE where they discussed HIV prevention and protection in porn, along with providing protection for those who were outside of the PASS protocols (such as gay male performers, who would probably be the ones most likely to use PrEP to lower their viral load in order not to infect others).

Remember that South and some of his AIDS Healthcare Foundation minions still want to impose mandatory condoms and "barrier protection" restrictions in order to impose their rule onto the industry. CalOSHA still has to initiate their final rule on regulating porn shoots, which would as currently proposed overrule the PASS protocols and mandate such restrictions, as well as weaker testing than the current standards.

But no, there is no approval for HIV+ performers to work if they still test positive on the PASS tests. That is a bonafide LIE.

[Anthony_JK]

I do agree, though, that the impact of Measure B and the Proposition 60 scare has pretty much killed porn production in Cali, having diversified production over to other venues like Vegas or Florida, as well as the turn towards home grown sites and interactive cam/chat sites. Between that and the desire of performers/camgirls/talent to get more profit off their efforts and protect themselves, old-school shooting of adult is becoming an endangered species.

[stickyvicky]

Not sure if the whole thing was blown out of proportion? Is this alarmist? But where did the idea that the PASS status be changed to "cleared for work" come from if FSC didn't say it? Eric says they never said it? I'm very confused. I thought I read on xbiz that they did propose it?

I do understand that there is barely no risk having sex with an HIV+ person when they are on their meds correctly. But that's the thing? On their meds correctly. What if they get depressed or distracted and miss their meds here and there?

Off the top of my head I can think of three girls I know in porn who actually got pregnant because they forgot to take their birth control. So that is a lot of trust to ask for?

[Anthony_JK]

Once again, because Bret may not have gotten the message:

An HIV+ performer cannot perform shoots once he or she tests positive under the PASS protocols. It doesn't matter if he/she is taking PrEP to reduce his/her viral load or not; if the load itself is enough to trigger a reactive positive, he/she is instantly removed from the talent pool.

Of course, if the viral load is reduced to such a level that his/her partner is not infected, then it is a moot point.

I'm not saying that performers shouldn't assess their own risks and make their own choices based on their feelings.

But there has not been, as far as I know, any case of an HIV+ person on PrEP who has infected another person with the virus....not even in the gay male porn scene. And that's with a lesser standard using weaker testing than what the PASS protocols offer.

I do think that crossover performers should be truthful and open enough to reveal their status before shooting so that others can make informed responsible choices about taking a risk.

[Maggie Green]

They are saying they will not allow HIV + performers allowed in the PASS system. However, someone who hasn't ever performed before and is HIV+ and on meds to suppress their viral load would test negative via the test that we currently use. So nobody would know. I know there is another test that will show if someone is positive even if they are on meds but it's not the test we currently use. I have read that undetectable means that it can't be transmitted however, I personally would not be willing to take that chance. And here you are hoping that that person is taking their meds properly, etc. You never fucking know! There are speculations that there are already HIV+ performers in the PASS system but who knows if this is just rumors.. But this is very worrisome to me. Not because I shoot much with other companies but pretty much every person I shoot with for my site does. I am all for ending the stigma attached to HIV, I am pretty educated on it and I know that it's no longer the death sentence that it was. But I believe it should be your choice to know upfront if someone is positive and some are saying that this could be a HIPPA violation now. That they shouldn't have to disclose it because if they are on the meds, you can't become infected. It's a big shit storm if you ask me!

[Anthony_JK]

Can't disagree with anything Maggie just said.

I never said that there weren't legitimate concerns that an HIV+ performer could somehow game the system and risk infecting another performer. While the risk is miniscule due to the protocols and the effectiveness of PrEP, it is still there, and performers have the absolute right to express those concerns and make their own decisions on how to best prepare and protect themselves.

I do think that just for this instance, there should be a waiver for HIPPA to allow performers to find out if someone is HIV+ and taking PrEP, and they should be able to prove that their viral load is below the threshold of threatening infection before they are allowed to shoot scenes.

The alternative I fear is the AHF/CalOSHA method of mandatory condoms and restricting various acts for "barrier protection", which would not only really kill off the industry, but increase the risk of infection by introducing much weaker methods of protection.

[stickyvicky]

FSC posted a clarification on xbiz. Guess it was hypothetical or intended for future discussion.
https://www.xbiz.com/news/241739/fsc-no ... d-for-pass

[Andrew35]

Alana Evans was at the meeting and asked a question, the response well check it out

[Anthony_JK]

This morning I did some Googling on that law Alana cited. She's a bit inaccurate.

The actual HIV disclosure law penalties in California were reduced from a felony to a misdemeanor crime following passage of legislation by the Cali state legislature in 2017. That legislation reduced the punishment for *knowingly exposing* their partner to HIV from 3-8 years to 6 months; that is the same penalty applied for other communicable diseases. "Knowingly exposing" means actively and intentionally infecting someone, not merely not telling them. Most states already have laws requiring HIV+ folk to disclose their status to their partners, as well as any involvement in needle exchanges.

Here's an NBCNews article on the signage of that bill into law and the forces both for and against it:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... iv-n809416

To be fair to Alana, it is still a felony crime in Nevada for deliberately infecting someone with HIV.

But also, in the midst of locating this article, I found this other one which states clearly that even the Centers for Disease Control has stated officially that there is miniscule or no risk of an HIV+ person using PrEP or any other treatment that reduces their viral load to untraceable levels infecting another person.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... id=related

The "money paragraph" , if you will:

"Across three different studies, including thousands of couples and many thousand acts of sex without a condom or pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), no HIV transmissions to an HIV-negative partner were observed when the HIV-positive person was virally suppressed," the statement said. "This means that people who take ART daily as prescribed and achieve and maintain an undetectable viral load have effectively no risk of sexually transmitting the virus to an HIV-negative partner."

Or to put it in plain English: There has not been one single documented case of an HIV+ person who has undergone ART/PrEP treatment and thusly reduced their viral load to undetectable levels infecting an HIV- person.

And that's with the standard of HIV testing that is prevalent overall, not the even more stringent PASS protocols for shooting porn.

FSC has also clarified that while there is discussion of offering in the future a separate pool for those who choose to perform with those with HIV whom have taken ART/PrEP treatment to the point of being virally suppressed to undetectable limits, the standard remains the same: anyone who test positive for HIV under their system, whether on treatment or not, is removed from the performer database and is banned from shooting porn.

I respect the concern that plenty of performers have about the danger of cross-contamination , but I do think that that legitimate concern is being overblown way out of proportion by some with their own thinly veiled agendas.

That's just my opinion, y'allz.

[stickyvicky]

it's not overblown, because the minute the person stops taking their meds, they get depresssed and have a bad attitude, or simply forgets a dose or 2 the viral loads go up and they could be risking others while their PASS status is still good.

When I went to Norway this past summer, the airline lost my luggage, and i waited several days to see if they would find it before I went to a doctor in Norway to try to get my prescriptions written there. It was a hassle and wasted an entire day of my vacation trying to get in to see a doctor and get a prescription written and filled in a foreign country, that's why I waited until I was sure they were not going to find my luggage. So in the end I was 5 or 6 days off my thyroid medicine. It wasn't a big deal because it was just thyroid, but just saying you don't always have control over things, life happens.....

It looks like the direction they are going in, in the future, a performer will not even know if the other performer they are about to work with is HIV+ or not, they will either be just "cleared for work" or "not cleared".

[WalterB]

I keep seeing "Viral load." What the devil is a "viral load?" Why can't legal people just speak English?

It seems to me that 1) still not enough data is available over just how successful this ART/PrEP is over the long haul.
And 2) is there any guarantee that the disease won't recur at some point in the future? Since AIDs is basically a death sentence, do you really want to take that chance?

[Anthony_JK]

Walt...."Viral load" refers to the degree of HIV antigen/antibodies in the blood stream of an infected person.

Vicky, if a person who is HIV+ and taking treatments to reduce his/her viral load in order to engage in consensual sex with an HIV- person (whether in porn or not) doesn't have enough respect for his/herself and their partners to control their medication to prevent even accidental infection, then they are really the lowest of human beings.

But, even if the worst comes to worse, a regimen of testing every 2 weeks using the most accurate and stringent procedures and testing drugs should be able to catch someone before (s)he infects others. It's worked for nearly 4 years using the present PASS system; all of the infections discovered were off the clock and caught before anyone was infected in a porn shoot. Combine that with the option of voluntary condoms and the risk is decreased that much more.

The basic idea floated around the FSC conference was NOT to have PrEP/ART treated HIV+ potential performers work within the full standard performer pool, but to establish a secondary, completely independent pool for those performers who would explicitly consent to do shoots with those who are taking ART/PrEP and whose viral load would be monitored to remain below infectable standards.

In any case, it's still just a proposal right now; nothing has changed involving the PASS protocol standards. Anyone that tests HIV+ is purged from the talent pool, and 1st/2nd gen partners are tested as well.

I am not and would never dismiss or ignore your concerns or your points, Vicky; performers have to do what they feel is right to protect them; and I have no beef at all against those performers who are raising honest and legitimate questions about the system. No one wants to get infected with HIV or any other STI.

However, when people with thinly veiled hidden agendas and historic vendettas attempt to exploit these legitimate concerns to distort facts and engage in personal attacks on their critics, that's when I have to call what I see.

Check out Mercedes Carrera's Twitter timeline for some genuine examples of how far it's gotten. Some of the more rabid critics of FSC are even going to excessive gay bashing and even bringing in August Ames' tragic suicide as a weapon to lodge at their opponents.

Regardless of what you think about PASS or HIV+ folks shooting porn, this crosses the line of decency.

[Anthony_JK]

Re: Andrew35:

The person at the FSC panel who actually made the comparison Alana Evans is talking about is Bella Bathory, a sex worker/performer. Here's some of her tweetage following the seminar where she defends her statements:





Sort of ironic that those so worried about HIPPA laws and releasing records are so hot on doxxing performers who test HIV+ without even checking first whether they actually did infect the talent pool. Is it really protecting performers that is the issue with Ruby here, or is it merely rampant homophobia and/or getting paid by Michael Weinstein and AHF to destroy FSC/PASS and impose a weaker system or even mandatory condoms? (Remember that APAG first backed Prop 60, then turned to "neutral" after they were found to be getting under-the-table money from AHF.)

I rest my case, Your Honor.

[Andrew35]

The only problem I had was the lady going on about the Holocaust, Slavery and such, that's something that should not be compared to things of this nature. that's about it on that. I don't know enough to really comment one way or another.