Germany closing Creators Twitter Accounts?

[stickyvicky]

Germany has passed a law that the creators are responsible for not allowing children to see their promotions. Which means they are not allowed to post on twitter like the rest of the creators. If they do, their accounts will be closed and they will be fined? There is even possible prison time, for posting on twitter. They have already closed 150 accounts.

https://www.xbiz.com/news/272937/german ... om-twitter

Is this fair? I feel bad for them. I think twitter should ban all porn across the board. I heard some states are now requiring parental permission for anyone under 18 to join twitter? Did I get that right? Or was it under 16? I'll have to check.

The world sure is changing... I heard the entire country of Canada is going to institute something like what Louisiana did where you will have to upload your id to the porn site you want to view (even if you are not joining it, just to view the tour pages?)

Arkansas, Tennessee and others creating copycat laws... Where is this all going? Where will we end up? I'm all for protecting children. I don't want children to see my porn. I just want it to be done in a reasonable rational way, that actually works and makes sense for everyone? I do wish they would include the porn site owners in the discussions instead of just legislating laws that will not work. We could be a big help to them.

[Davest]

Obviously these legislators don't truly care about the children. They care about signaling to their bible-thumping constituents and their donor corporations that they are worthy of all the donations that can be sent to them.

We really need a law overturning Citizen's United. Unfortunately, that law would have to be passed by the very people making millions of dollars from that decision.

[LizLemon85]

I just read both german articles that are linked in the xbiz article (one is behind a paywall, but i was able to read it). I regularly watch the news and read a lot and am well informed about what’s going on here, but I hadn’t heard about it at all, it’s just not a major topic here.
Big difference is, unlike in the US (please correct me if I got that wrong), there isn’t a “war on porn” here, there are no religious groups behind it or no politicians who try to get religious votes.
There are very strict rules about the distribution of pornographic material. I.e. when you buy DVDs you have to send them a copy of your ID and the person at the post office or delivery person has to check your ID as well. Same with Videogames or anything that requires you to be 18+.
So they’re basically not saying “porn is bad” (remember that prostitution is legal here) but that minors shouldn’t be able to easily access porn, so they demand age verification.
The articles don’t say anything about huge fines (“The criminal proceedings are usually stopped for a payment of 300 euros if the content in question is taken offline and it is the first violation”, but “the supervisory authorities can initiate media law proceedings.”, so there is the option to procecute people for posting porn on twitter, but everyone has paid the small fine and deleted their profiles or Twitter deleted their profiles, so it never got that far) or jail time. If the companies would finally come up with a solution regarding age verification, no one would have a problem, instead sexworkers lose their income because they have to delete their profiles (or their profiles are deleted).

[stickyvicky]

Omg Davest you are so correct.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/ ... -explained

We are so fucked as a country. How depressing. No wonder most people just give up, stand on the sidelines, and think they don't matter, so they don't even bother voting.

[WalterB]

Wouldn't it all be solved by just making Twitter a porn site or a non-porn site? You require age verification at the very front, Twitter could even make two sites, one of each.

A Porn site doesn't seem to have any of these problems. You provide age verification (CC data) and you're in. Twitter has made itself open to all comers. That doesn't seem to be the way to control porn vs non porn. I fully realize that Twitter, being so popular, wants to appeal to everyone. But if you want to control certain aspects of a site, you do it right up front. You don't allow free access, then bitch about what those who have legal access are posting.

To my thinking, you don't allow free access to a site that posts porn. It's that simple. Talk to me, Vicky.

[WalterB]

"...efforts by anti-porn crusaders around the world to censor sexual expression in open platforms such as Twitter, Reddit, Discord and Telegram." So, there are others.

Why do we feel that we should be able to post porn on 'open' sites? It is NOT censorship, so people need to quit trying to bolster their case by calling it that. It is "controlling access so that children don't have access to places they shouldn't be." We control access to bars, don't we? Of course kids still get alcohol. But there will always be those who can gain access to prohibited locations through subterfuge. There will always be kids who will be able to 'borrow' Mom's credit card and use it to get in somewhere.

When I was somewhere in my teens (15? 16?) we had 2 cars. Mom and Dad used to go Square Dancing every week. I decided to sneak Mom's keys from her purse one night while they were in the back getting ready to go. Once they were gone, I "stole" the car, a '53 Chevy, and drove it around. Then, once they got home (or the next morning) I could sneak Mom's keys back into her purse. Did that 3 times. The third time, I tried being a hot-rodder and ended up busting the rear U-Joint. So I had to leave the car there and walk home. So, BUSTEDDDD!!! But the point is, of course, I wasn't supposed to be doing that, but I wanted to and found a way. The best you can do is to control access at the access point.

"“anyone who makes available pornographic content in a place that can be viewed by persons under the age of eighteen shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine.”" So what is wrong with this? Yes, I agree that it's a little heavy, but they are making the effort, instead of trying to allow porn on open sites where children have free access.

[WalterB]

Sorry, folks. I need to stop posting until I've read it all, lol.

"“the distribution of pornography on the internet is only permitted in closed user groups with prior age verification. Since this is not the case on Twitter, the distribution of pornography via Twitter in its current form is not permitted in Germany.”"

I'm sorry. I do not see the problem. With all due respect to dear Vicky, the other VNA models and all of the ladies trying to make a living, you say that you agree with restricting porn access to minors, but you are fighting to allow porn on open sites where minors have free access.

"“...providers” — her term for creators — of adult content “are responsible for making sure that children and young people cannot access the content.” Doesn't that mean not posting porn content on free, open access locations?

"These actions create an atmosphere of fear and politically and financially strangle the industry,” Bullshit! - For reasons already stated.

You can't go to the beach and take off all your clothes except in specially designated places. You want to ger naked at the beach? You go to a nude beach. You don't walk out on the Santa Monica Pier and strip down.

"Definitions used by the authorities, for example those differentiating “eroticism” (protected as free speech) from “pornography” (subject to censorship), can be nebulous an(d) arbitrary." This also is true. And, yes, there are those whose agenda is to stop porn completely. This is not an answer, either. Porn has been around forever. I posted somewhere here years ago, pictures of "porn" discovered on the walls of Pompeii, Italy, which was buried by the eruption of Mt Vesuvius in the year 79 A.D. You will not stop porn. And you shouldn't, for age qualified adults.

"“It's time for us to enter the 21st century,” Freymadl added. “Neither an active sex life with several changing partners nor the practice of sex work are in any way morally reprehensible.”"

[stickyvicky]

Wouldn't it all be solved by just making Twitter a porn site or a non-porn site? You require age verification at the very front, Twitter could even make two sites, one of each.

Most people wouldn't join the porn twitter, They can't let their wives or girlfriends know that they are on a porn site but twitter is ok.

Also the advertisers would not pay to be on a porn site...... It works for the advertisers benefit to be on twitter which is porn friendly because then the audience is greater, but they cannot expressly advertise to a porn audience because it looks bad for them.


A Porn site doesn't seem to have any of these problems. You provide age verification (CC data) and you're in.

this is just not true Walt. I have a porn site and I have serious, costly problems. I have to now block the state of Louisiana from my home page and join page. Doesn't matter if they have a credit card or not. If they are from Louisiana, they are not allowed to join any vna site unless I create a software portal for them to upload their state ID onto my server. Porn servers are hacked all the time. i do not want the responsibility of storing lots of users IDs on my server.

Right now it's just Louisiana, but soon I have to also block Arkansas, Mississippi, Tennessee, and a few others (can't remember without looking them up) and soon the entire country of Canada which represents 25% of our sales.

At that point I will have look at what the cost would be to implement some system for users to safely upload their IDs and see if it's worth it for me? I imagine a lot of smaller sites will just shut down cause the xpense, work and trouble doesn't make sense. It's easier to just sell your content on Onlyfans. Plus once these laws are in effect it would probably cut sales by half? Would you feel comfortable uploading your ID to a porn server? I wouldn't. So why would you say "porn sites don't have any problems"

Twitter has made itself open to all comers. That doesn't seem to be the way to control porn vs non porn. I fully realize that Twitter, being so popular, wants to appeal to everyone. But if you want to control certain aspects of a site, you do it right up front. You don't allow free access, then bitch about what those who have legal access are posting.


Twitter is not bitching about what users are posting, it's the German gov't who is bitching. Rightly so! I wish our government would do the same. Twitter has to comply with the laws of every country its in though. All I'm saying is it's unfair to the German creators. I wish it was the same rules for everyone.


To my thinking, you don't allow free access to a site that posts porn. It's that simple. Talk to me, Vicky.

[stickyvicky]

"...efforts by anti-porn crusaders around the world to censor sexual expression in open platforms such as Twitter, Reddit, Discord and Telegram." So, there are others.

Why do we feel that we should be able to post porn on 'open' sites? It is NOT censorship, so people need to quit trying to bolster their case by calling it that. It is "controlling access so that children don't have access to places they shouldn't be." We control access to bars, don't we? Of course kids still get alcohol. But there will always be those who can gain access to prohibited locations through subterfuge. There will always be kids who will be able to 'borrow' Mom's credit card and use it to get in somewhere.

When I was somewhere in my teens (15? 16?) we had 2 cars. Mom and Dad used to go Square Dancing every week. I decided to sneak Mom's keys from her purse one night while they were in the back getting ready to go. Once they were gone, I "stole" the car, a '53 Chevy, and drove it around. Then, once they got home (or the next morning) I could sneak Mom's keys back into her purse. Did that 3 times. The third time, I tried being a hot-rodder and ended up busting the rear U-Joint. So I had to leave the car there and walk home. So, BUSTEDDDD!!! But the point is, of course, I wasn't supposed to be doing that, but I wanted to and found a way. The best you can do is to control access at the access point.

"“anyone who makes available pornographic content in a place that can be viewed by persons under the age of eighteen shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than one year or a fine.”" So what is wrong with this? Yes, I agree that it's a little heavy, but they are making the effort, instead of trying to allow porn on open sites where children have free access.

You are preaching to the choir on this one.

[stickyvicky]

I'm sorry. I do not see the problem. With all due respect to dear Vicky, the other VNA models and all of the ladies trying to make a living, you say that you agree with restricting porn access to minors, but you are fighting to allow porn on open sites where minors have free access.


I am not fighting to allow porn on open sites where minors have free access. I have no choice. This is the system we have. If I don't post my website updates to Twitter and don't repost Liz's Monday titty shakes I won't get traffic to my site. I try to post more topless than pink so it's not horribly traumatic for kids if they see it. But I would be out of business if all my competitors posted porn advertising and I did not. So what choice do I have? That's why it needs to be uniform - across the board. All states and all countries need to agree and come up with a plan to protect kids. So it's the same for all of us.

[stickyvicky]

So the Arkansas social media law just passed.

https://www.xbiz.com/news/272863/arkans ... -platforms

While I applaud the effort isn't it useless? Most teenagers know how to use a VPN on their phones, tablets and laptops, so they still won't need parents consent?

Isn't it a whole lot of administration and mess for nothing? Maybe just to make the politicians look good? Like they are doing something, even when they are not really?

[WalterB]

Well, of course I don't know all of the behind-the-scenes stuff. I have no idea what you or anyone else has to go through. I am just responding to what is posted on-line. And sometimes, even that is wrong. But I fully believe that the government and controlling agencies make things difficult instead of easier. The innocent get punished while the dregs of society get it handed to them