Rolling Stones vs. The Beatles

[rokkerr]

Well.... I love sex but since we have been on music for a bit..... what is the preference.... ???

[WalterB]

Well, being a "stone" Rolling Stones fan, to be honest, I'm not sure a person can really compare the two - meaning they do two different styles of music. But when they are doing the same - rock amd roll - I have to give the Stones the edge. When they both go to the "roots" of R&R, I think Mick and the Boyz get closer to what this old fart feels is the roots of rock. If you want to know what I like, listen to Chuck Berry's "Let It Rock." I consider that one pretty much the greatest real, get-down, Rock and Roll Anthem I've heard. I just love the background "Boogie Woogie" that moves it along. I guess my roots are in Rockabilly, which has a wonderful collection out now.

Most of the early Stones stuff I like are covers of American Rock, but they did some great stuff of their own. Stuff like, "Down The Road Apiece" and "Route 66," "Down Home Girl," and "Little By Little." Later songs like "It's All Over Now," "Happy," "Respectable," and slower music like "Tumbling Dice" and "Sweet Virginia" (Got to scrape the shit right off your shoes....) And, of course, their 'Satanic' period -- "Midnight Rambler" and "Sympathy For The Devil." Ah, the lists go on. I also liked one called (publicly called "Star Star.")

You may have heard, the rumor was that it was Micks retaliation to Carly Simon's "You're So Vain." But Carly has said that "You're So Vain" was not about Mick Jagger. Well, who knows, you know how rumors get going. I liked "Star Fucker" (the song name on the album) simply because of the beat (and maybe the lyrics - it's pretty dirty.)

But, keep in mind, the Beatles covered Chuck Berry pretty damn well themselves.
Ah, you young whimper-snappers don't even know real Rock and Roll.
OK, Dave and John - let me have it -- both barrels teehee :lol: :P

[John_fromNY]

Ahhh, just play the "All You Need Is Love" video - that has the John and the rest of the Beatles singing and playing along. Mick, Brian and Keith are there in the background... I think all you see on camera is Mick though.

Who's that ragdoll on Sgt Pepper's cover, why it's the Rolling Stones... :lol: :lol:

About Rock and Roll music itself: George Harrison, and Pete Best were covering Carl Perkins numbers at the Star Club in 1959. Eventully Ringo sang a few as well. John used to sing Gene Vincent and Larry Williams songs as well as part of his act. Most of the time, he gave songs to George or Ringo to sing as they were in his repitoire.

...Listen to Rock & Roll, John's 1975 album.

[rokkerr]

John, you did not answer the question...... Stones vs. Beatles.....

For me..... the Beatles any day of the week. I love great Stones songs but Beatles songs are more classical :shock: :shock:

[WalterB]

You answered your own question, Dave. The Beatles are "Classical" but the Stones are "Classic!" teehee

[John_fromNY]

Walter was talking about the heart of the matter... playing old time R&R and R&B... the Beatles played it and moved on. Though John and George continued with it.

Why did they fire Bill Wyman?? - because he always needed to listen to Charlie Watts banging of his bass drum... Paul's bass playing was always superb...listen to "Dear Prudence"

As you can tell, I like the Beatles over the Stones anyday of the week...

I can tell you the best musician there was...was a Rolling Stone, Brian Jones. Next came John Lennon.

Though "Happy" was the best song ever sung by "Palm tree" Keith.. hehe. And I do like "Emotional Rescue"

...On earlier albums, I like "The Under Assistant West Coast Promotional Man" off Out of Our Heads .

[rokkerr]

My last opinion... the Beatles played rock and songs...... the Stones just rock....

does that make sense? The Stones had better rock but overall, on a desert island, I would choose the Beatles any day of the week.....

[John_fromNY]

Your question needs to take into the producer aspect here. As mainly there are two different producers here, George Martin and Andrew Loog Oldham.

George Martin helped arrange much of the orchestral sound of the Beatles. He later worked with Phil Spector on the Let It Be album. Alan Parsons later of the Alan Parson Project was the only known disciple of Martin that I can think of currently.

While Andy Oldham amd Phil Spector chose to keep the Rolling Stones' music blues based... Oldman was instrumental in other British groups as well. The Animals, the Small Faces, The Faces, Humble Pie, Renaissance, The Move, etc. Mike Vernon and Chas Chandler were both known disciples of Oldham's. Mike worked later with Fleetwood Mac, while Chandler worked later with Jimi Hendrix and the Band of Gypsies...

The Rolling Stones could play in small clubs, and parks if they wanted to. Remember Hyde Park, UK - A happy time with the doves.... and the Altamont, CA MotorSpeedway :( :( :( unfortunately a sad time. "Sympathy for the Devil" and the Hells Angels don't mix...The Beatles had to stop because they couldn't hear themselves playing because of the screaming girls.... Shea Stadium, NY and Candlestick Park, CA :)

Out of Our Heads, 12x5, December's Children, Aftermath, Beggar's Banquet, Get Your Ya Yas Out, Let It Bleed, Exile on Main Street, and Sticky Fingers are all great albums.

Don't get me wrong...

I do like both bands, but I just like the Beatles better.

[WalterB]

You're totally right, Rokkerr. The Beatles played Rock and music, the Stones play Rock and (weird.) But, like I said earlier, music is one of those 'personal preference' things, anyway, for the same reasons you state, on a desert Isle I would take the Stones - and Vicky to dance with teehee :twisted: )

I thought I had the "Out of our Heads" album (I'm sure I had it once) so I can't refresh my memory, but I do remember the song.

[rokkerr]

The Stones simply did not go beyond rock...... and well blues, in my book. The Beatles went from being a boy band to one of the most inventive groups ever to hit the planet..... did the Stones even try a Sgt. Pepper or for that matter a Helter Skelter? They kept within the zone of greatness that they had...... nothing bad about that but....... I am sticking to my guns, I gotta go with the Beatles over the Stones......

[John_fromNY]

You're totally right, Rokkerr. The Beatles played Rock and music, the Stones play Rock and (weird.) But, like I said earlier, music is one of those 'personal preference' things, anyway, for the same reasons you state, on a desert Isle I would take the Stones - and Vicky to dance with teehee :twisted: )

I thought I had the "Out of our Heads" album (I'm sure I had it once) so I can't refresh my memory, but I do remember the song.

WEIRD???? ... Because the Stones had that crazy guy from Jamaica... and Brian as well. Brian Jones was the most talented musicians around. Next to Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck as they were the best session men in the studios at the time.. Brian was on that level..

[WalterB]

By 'weird,' John, I meant things like Goatshead Soup and one or two others I can't remember now. I know I used to have more Stones albums but now can only find 8.
1. The Rolling Stones Now 2. Englands Newest Hit Makers 3. Got Live If You Want It 4. Big Hits (High Tide And Green Grass) 5. Goatshead Soup 6. Exile On Main Street 7. Some Girls and 8. Let It Bleed.

Rokkerr, again you are right. The Stones never really left the rock/blues arena except for their brief sojurn into the somewhat mystical. But, like I've said, I imagine that that is why I continue to like them. I'm a rocker. And, yes, I like many of the Beatles releases. And, yes, they were very creative and inventive musicians, among, if not THE best, while the Stones, well, rock.

[rokkerr]

Did you guys see the recent movie about Brian Jones.... very good I thought, thumbs up!!!

[WalterB]

No. What's the name?

[rokkerr]

Boy cant tell you but it was really dramatic and realistic...... as usual I saw it on a plane..... 8)

[WalterB]

I did a quick websearch. It looks like it might be a movie named "Stoned." That appears to be a fairly recent movie and apparently speculates about his death (murder or 'simple' drowning?) I may try to find a copy.
I found a blog that sez the movie was to be released in 2006.
UPdate 2: Found Stoned on Amazon.com, should arrive in a week or so. Will try to remember to comment once I've seen it.

[John_fromNY]

Thanks Walter... Yes, according to IMDb, Stoned was a movie that came out in 2005. It starred Leo Gregory as Brian Jones. It was directed by Stephen Woolley.

IMDb Plot Outline for Stoned:

Fact-based story about the drug-addled and sordid life of The Rolling Stones founder Brian Jones (Leo Gregory). Unfortunately the story moves so quickly into the sensationalized decadence and drug-induced state of Jones, that the unknowing viewer has to wonder why anyone would care. There are only a few framing sequences with members of The Stones, particularly Keith Richards (Ben Whishaw), that show they had a great respect for him and tried to bring him back into the band as he drifted away. Mixed into the destruction of Jones is a common builder, Frank Thorogood, (Paddy Considine), who is given the unenviable task of trying to please Jones by rebuilding his estate and to watch him per Jones' manager's (David Morrissey) instructions. Thorogood's life is so far removed from all of the sex and drugs that he sees, that he envies and desires the tawdry life as well, but never quite fits in. Unfortunately, at least according to this film and according to a supposed death bed confessional of Thorogood in 1993, it led to Thorogood's murder of Jones in a swimming pool "accident". Jones' Swedish girl friend is portrayed by Tuva Nuvotny. Other Stones are played by Luke de Woolfson (Jagger), Josef Altin (Wyman), and James D. White (Watts). The film contains full frontal male and female nudity, frequent graphic sex, constant drug use and profanity, and some violence as Brian beats his girl friend and, of course, the depiction of the murder. Written by John Sacksteder {jsackste@bellsouth.net}

I also checked another area of the IMDb and the only other item that appears under Brian Jones under its Biography section is a one man play presently in pre-production, as it actually started in February 2007, which the actor Robin Askwith is starring in and is currently preparing for called "Paint It Black" - based on the life and death of Brian Jones.
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An interesting story - I paraphrased the IMDb wording - Did you know that Donovan Leitch, of "Sunshine Superman" and "Mellow Yellow" fame, actually married Jones widow, Linda Lawrence after Brian died in 1969. They raised Jones' son Julian and had two daughters of their own. (Donovan also fathered son actor Donovan Leitch, Jr. and actress Ione Skye by Enid Karl)

[Benny25]

You guys all know that I think the Beatles were the superior band in their heyday. I think the Stones followed the Beatles musical innovations and jumped on their bandwagon and cashed in in several instances. That's not to say the Stones weren't a good band. They were and still are. They've shown the grittiness it takes to stay assembled all these years.
Here's my thoughts on some of the comments made here.

Rokker : "did the Stones even try a Sgt. Pepper or for that matter a Helter Skelter?"

The Stones released "Their Satanic Majesty's Request" in November of 1967. That's just about 5 months after the Sgt. Pepper's release. The album cover remarkedly resembles Sgt. Pepper's too. Both albums marked a different direction of musical creativity for each band.



"Let it Bleed" was released November 1969. Although "Let It Be" was released in May, 1970, most of the songs were recorded January of 1969 and put on the backburner in order to record and promote "Abbey Road".

"Yesterday" was recorded using a stringed quartet near the summer of 1965 and the Stones rebounded with their own string rendition of "As tears go by" later on that year.

I see a pattern here.

As far as the best musician of the two groups, I don't know if Brian Jones was the best. It would be hard to compare his talent if it wasn't showcased much. Maybe you could enlighten me on that one John. I've read that he could play almost any instrument he picked up but as far as virtuosity is concerned, I think Sir Paul has that catagory wrapped up. I think he displayed his musical talents magnificently in his first solo album (though I think he should have let a more experienced producer mix it for him). I loved John Lennon and everybody knows he was the straw that stirred the Beatles' drink but he was not a "great" guitarist. He could do a mean Jerry Lee Lewis on the keyboards though.

Ok, that's my 4 cents

[John_fromNY]

...The Rolling Stones may be the greatest rock and roll group in the world... but not the best band ever. Far from it.... Note that anouncement in 1969 came after the Beatles had broken up, or were in the midst of breaking up ... Tell me this, why have Let It Bleed after Let It Be ??? ... Hmmmmmmm?

Benny - This was my response to Walter in a previous post... I'll tend to agree with you....About how the Rolling Stones copied and always seemed to follow the Beatles ideas. But was it Andrew Oldham's persuasive thinking? That's a good question raised here. As I said, I think both Andrew Loog Oldham and George Martin were brilliant....I think the members of the Rolling Stones followed Andy's advice. Did Mick Jagger laugh it off when asked, I think so.

As far as the best musician of the two groups, I don't know if Brian Jones was the best. It would be hard to compare his talent if it wasn't showcased much. Maybe you could enlighten me on that one John. I've read that he could play almost any instrument he picked up but as far as virtuosity is concerned, I think Sir Paul has that catagory wrapped up....

That's what I read too... I think Donovan Leitch confirmed that at one point during the session work in 1966 for "Sunshine Superman".... That Brian could play dulcimer, marimbas, mandolin, ukelele, dobro, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, peddle steel guitar, viola, and chello. Then piano, organ, harpsichord, and trumpet, without ever practicing with them before.....And he should know... as he played with all the Beatles, all the Stones, Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck.

Yes I thought about it and I'll agree with you. Paul was more talented of the two Beatles, himself and John. Anyway about Paul - That first McCartney album was very good. Songs like "Every Night" and "Maybe I'm Amazed" appear on it. Oh, and thank you for reminding me, as I totally forgot when "The Ballad of John and Yoko" was recorded. George and Ringo were not available. John played both guitar parts, rhythm and lead. While Paul played drums and bass guitar. And during the recording of "Rain" - George Harrison also wasn't available, for alot of it, thus John's idea (with the help of George Martin) to play the guitar riffs backwards on tape...Did you know that??

And remember too that both John and Brian could play harmonica as well. Though Mick Jagger was also very good on it as well, especially on "Midnight Rambler" - they actually used dubbing in that sense. His vocals appear on one track, while his harmonica playing was on another track. -- John Hammond and Tom Wilson of Columbia Records were the first ones to do that, they developed it, as they were the first ones to capture Bob Dylan that way.

Mike Vernon, a disciple of Andrew Oldham, used that same technology when recording Peter Green playing harmonica on "Looking for Somebody" and "Long Gray Mare" on Fleetwood Mac's first album.

Oh, and the best takeoff of the Sgt Pepper's album cover goes to drumroll please ...Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention...on their We're Only In It For the Money album...(inside cover)... An appropriate title.

...Now about Frank Zappa.... well, he was a very talented guitarist... but that story is for another day!!!

[Benny25]

Did Brian Jones play lead guitar? I always thought that he played rhythm. Whenever I saw film of them, it was always Keith busting out the riffs. The only time I remember Brian playing a distinctive part was the fuzz on Satisfaction or on harmonica. Can you steer me to some songs that Brian played lead on or solo'd on? Speaking of fuzz, did the Stones release Satisfaction prior to the Beatles "Think For Yourself" in which Paul played the fuzz bass? I can't remember.

Oh, and John played lead on "Get Back" too in that infamous Apple rooftop concert.

My top 5 Beatle songs by John:

I'm Only Sleeping
And Your Bird Can Sing
Happiness is a Warm Gun
You Can't Do That
It's Only Love
In My Life

Ok, that's 6. I kept thinking of more songs and I couldn't knock any of these out.